Gold Medal Prime time: An Interview with Alia Jones, by Charlie, 18

 This person is so awesome, she was like: "Why do you want to interview me?" 

Later asking (when I pestered), "You still trying to interview me?"  😂

As soon as I found out about Alia Jones, I knew I liked her and that she would accept me. She is a voice of justice and art and talent and care. We love kids books. We're concerned with Afro-Indigenous identity and history--and how our ancestors honor each other today. 

I worked extra hard on my questions because I knew our conversation would resonate. I knew she would dare with me--if I dared with her. Grab a hold--here we goes!

C: What's your provenance? You've mentioned your mom and dad a little online. I recently learned your name comes from Frank Herbert's St Alia of the Knife. Where did you come from and who do you belong to?

A: My roots are in Alabama and Mississippi, but I was born and raised up north, in Cincinnati Ohio. My mom and dad were very special people. They’ve both passed on. I’m trying to live up to their power, goodness and deep sense of service. Haha that’s true! My father was a big nerd, a big reader. He loved the Dune series and named me after Alia. He also loved that name because in Arabic it means “The Highest” & “Supreme.” I belong to everyone I am in service to and love. I come from people who worked the land, raised horses, cooked effortlessly and birthed babies. I come from Southern Black people (whose names I’m slowly learning) who formed bonds with Indigenous people (whose names and tribal affiliations I’ve yet to discover).

                                                              

C: I think you were an exceptional student who was sometimes teased and bullied for that. I was “sister sissy,” the follow-the-rules, soft Black Native boy who got straight As too. Can you talk about that? How do we tell little brothers and sisters that it’s okay to be school smart? You went all the way to a Fulbright Scholarship, right?

A: You’re super perceptive, yes. I think soft Black and Brown nerds always gravitate towards each other. I was pretty good in school. I struggled with test-taking and confidence but always enjoyed the ritual of learning. What made school a good experience for me was really my teachers, I had some great ones. I didn’t have close friends until highschool; making friends wasn’t easy for me. It’s hard to tell young people that it’s gonna be okay while they are going through tough times because when you’re in the eye of the storm it’s blustery and hard to see. The best we can do is be there for our little brothers and sisters and that means different things for different people. Listening, observing and understanding is key. Sometimes it’s just sitting with someone. Yes! I received a Fulbright English Teaching Assistant Scholarship to teach English in South Korea in 2010. I taught there for about four years. I miss my students, friends and my neighborhood.

C: How did you become interested in kid lit work? From the outside, it seems like you fast tracked to where you wanted to go, but that may be just perception. That 2020 Caldecott Committee lineup—that’s glorious. I know you’re proud—you ought to be proud!

A:  After teaching elementary students in South Korea, I came back home and became a children’s bookseller & later a library worker. It just made sense to work with books, families and kids. My blog (http://readitrealgood.com) and my presence on social media really helped me get to where I am today.  It was also the fact that I have a strong voice, I am good at critical & careful analysis of texts,  I have honest discussions about the publishing industry and I am very good at breaking down picture books to understand them on a deeper level. I’m super grateful to be a part of such a strong and supportive children’s literature community. The connections I’ve made in children’s literature, publishing and libraries have led to invites to sit on panels, give lectures/workshops and serve on award committees. Yesssss! I am STILL SO PROUD of our books (The Undefeated, Going Down Home With Daddy, Bear Came Along & Double Bass Blues). That was quite an experience. Those books make me so happy and I’m glad we were able to award those authors and illustrators for their brilliance. I really hope we can party next year at the summer American Library Association conference. lol

C: I’ve never seen someone talk about picture book illustrations as completely as you do. You see so much I (and others) miss. I think it’s a superpower! I’ve studied the cover of Arthur’s Good Manners, the Little Golden Book you loved as a kid. What captured your young self—the trim of the tablecloth, the spaghetti on the leg? Today, when you pick up a picture book, can you tell at first glance it’s a special one?

A: That’s kind of you to say. I love picture books and the intricate relationship between text and illustration. Oh, Arthur’s Good Manners is so cute and so 80s! I remember loving the detailed illustrations and rich color. Another one I really loved as a child was, I Need a Lunchbox by Jeannette Gaines and Pat Cummings. I would stare at the bright illustrations and imagine my own fantastic, amazing lunchboxes. I don’t know about these days, but lunchboxes were a BIG DEAL in school in the 80s and 90s. Today when I pick up a picture book I can judge the art very quickly, but what makes a great picture book is the relationship between art and text, so that takes some time to discern and judge.

C: Let’s get real. Afro Indigenous or Black Native identity is beautiful, but it can be heavy to carry. I feel more anti-Black racism in Native spaces than I did as a kid. Maybe I was just oblivious, because my dad was called nigger on the (Ft. Pierce) reservation and red nigger off it.  He’s still fighting the same fight. There’s more Native kidlit and YA Lit but I’m still not seeing me and my little cousins. (Unless it’s a rare, gorgeous thing like Kevin Maillard’s Fry Bread!) I know this will be controversial, but while I think we must call out white ‘pretendians,’ I feel Black kin looking for their ancestors should be given grace. How do you untangle all this? You’re a beacon for me!

A: It truly is! So beautiful. Anti-Blackness is so insidious and Afro-Native people often, as your dad has experienced, receive that negative and hateful energy from many sides. It’s sad because it shows just how deep white supremacy has its claws in our society and has infected our ways of being and kinship structures. I’m also wishing for more Afro-Native representation in kidlit! Write your book, Charlie! :D Afro-Native kids should be able to see their experiences reflected on the page too. I’m not about calling out anyone who claims Indigenous ancestry because there are many ways that people have become disconnected from their Native kin (family denial, racism, adoption, boarding schools, forced assimilation/relocation, one-drop-rule, etc). That being said, I believe that Native people should extend more grace, time, patience and love to Black kin who are looking to reconnect and understand. The ways in which our ancestors connected, married and walked together through history is very complicated. We also can’t ignore the history of slave-owning Tribes in the United States. We desperately need more intercommunity conversations & safe spaces to discuss our histories/relationships. That’s how we’ll begin healing and push against discrimination within Indian Country.

C: More heavy. Like you, I’m figuring out where I fall on the #ownvoices/WNDB discussion. It seemed to center people who can *choose* safety and that made me feel sad and pushed farther to the margins because I never can. I’m a Black FL Seminole, Two-sprit, gay boy in the south. No hiding any of it. Last year, I grew tall (with a baby face)! Not only is it harder to do femme but I’m a tall Black man threat now. I’ve seen you mention how you were treated every day as a Black woman working in a US library and teaching overseas. Or even waiting for the bus. I’m lucky to have supportive parents. I need to have mentors, to hear from you and Mama Penny how you navigate it.  I don’t experience misogynoir but queerphobia. There’s a link but it’s not the same.

A: I know this world feels so dangerous. You are a brilliant light. :) I have talked to creatives of color who have mixed feelings about phasing out the term #ownvoices. Though it has been co-opted by publishing, it has also given many writers and illustrators a sense of empowerment and control of the narrative. The term has also, over the years, helped many readers connect to the content they need. That’s so important. I don’t think it’s something that necessarily has to be pushed to the side completely. I’m so grateful that you have supportive parents, and friends! You, and all of Of Glades, have many people who care about your emotional well-being and survival. We are here for you. <3

C: How are you getting by in the pandemic? Daym, you lost your job! You’re on the 2022 Coretta Scott King Committee, which I realize you can’t talk about or give book recommendations. I’m doing online college and working at Bojangles. We almost lost my dad to Covid. That’s all keeping me focused. What are you thinking about? Spill anything you want.

A: The pandemic has been emotionally difficult for me. Yes, our entire Youth Services department (plus 3 other departments) was furloughed and then laid off. I could’ve taken another position within the system but decided I was done with them. That’s right, I’m currently reading for the Coretta Scott King Book Awards Jury and I’ve had to keep quiet on social media about Black books for youth. I know it’s been quite a tough year for you as well. I hope you’ve been able to fit in things that bring you joy and peace of mind, while you navigate all of this. What am I thinking about? Right now I’m trying to figure out what is next for me. What will make my spirit happy? I’m reflecting on what I want my next set of goals to be...

C: What’s a kidlit book that you wish were better know? AND are you going to write and/or illustrate a book one day? I can see it! Maybe we do it together!

A: One book that I think about a lot is Nightlights by Lorena Alvarez. It’s a very pretty and deep graphic novel about a girl with the power to interact with her dreams through her drawings. More people should read it and think about the messages in it. Haha I’m asked this question quite a lot by people who know me. It’s definitely on my mind. Do I have a story quite yet? Perhaps? I’m not sure. Maybe we will collaborate one day, Charlie! That would be a lot of fun. :)

THANK YOU, Ms. Alia!!!! Y’all better check out her blog. We welcome comments and discussion here but will be monitoring. 

If you want more information on Afro-Indigenous history, see my interview with Mama Penny Gamble-Williams of Wampanoag and African heritage. She’s an artist and spiritual leader involved in Native land, freedom of religion and sacred site issues, Indigenous and environmental rights. I also discuss my ancestry.